Guerilla Frequencies
Annie Mitchell 00:01
Imagine you're hiking, you're outside, you're breathing fresh air, you're experiencing all the juicy all that nature has to offer. And you're feeling more and more human with every step you take. darkness falls, but you don't panic, you're not lost. everything is as it was meant to be. And you're so far out that light pollution has faded, and you see a beautiful black sky full of stars, very peaceful, very relaxing. You keep walking. Now, imagine that you've come across a field of boulders on a hillside. And slowly, softly hundreds of tentacles of lights and tracing the landscape come into focus, each one delicately curling and swirling into its neighbor and itself to create a massive land sculpture covering 1000s of feet. It's both natural and unnatural. You hear their environment around you but somehow it's altered... somehow different, slowed down, perhaps you can't quite put your finger on it. But the more time you spend watching the lights fade in and out of soft, delicate hues. Surrounded by this altered soundscape. You find yourself becoming more and more relaxed, not sleepy, but a little bit gone.
Joel Krieger 02:00
I'm Joel Krieger. And this is outside in each episode, my co host poverty and I will seek to discover experienced design in unexpected places. Now, these creators may not call themselves experienced designers. They actually go by many different labels. But they all have one thing in common. They intentionally create moments that have the power to change us. Well, what you just heard was our guest today, Light and Sound artist, Annie Mitchell. I asked Annie to paint us a mental picture of what it might be like to encounter her work. And he creates these beautiful site specific land sculptures that combine light and sound with the natural environment. Using handcrafted fiber optics and rhythmic soundscapes, she employs a method called brainwave entrainment, which is a fancy word for the frequency following response of your brain so your brainwaves actually sync up to the rhythm of external stimuli. An example of this can be seen in people with photosensitive epilepsy. So if a strobe light flashes at just the right frequency, their brain will then train to the flashing lights, resulting in a seizure. And on the brighter side, this method can be used to induce many desirable brainwave states, like relaxation, focus, sleep, and even meditative or sometimes even trance-like states. And people who experience or work, they often report feeling completely free of tension and anxiety, both during and after the experience.
03:34
Now, before continuing, you may want to hit pause and quickly check out her site at Annie m dot m e, to get a visual benchmark for the work we'll be talking about. you'll immediately notice that the photography is quite stunning. But keep in mind that the visual, it's really only one part of the experience. Now since we haven't been able to experience Annie's work for ourselves, we spoke to two of her friends who have
Eames Demetrios 04:01
Then you'd pull over and you'd walk and you'd see kind of a glow, especially if you came just after, after sunset. And then you'd see these beautiful spirals. It looked like some sort of magical set of Octopi we're hanging out there and it's literally light on the land. So it's very subtle, because it's actually obviously very unnatural to have blowing fiber optics there. And yet, the whole thing seems appropriate. I wouldn't be surprised if people had had some altered states and people were just genuinely happy. And happiness is rare, rare commodity these days. There are a lot of people smiling and then being reflective and then being sort of in a trance.
Jeff Grantz 04:46
It's not something that's an overlay onto nature, but it's actually more an excavating or trying to highlight what is just beneath the surface, perhaps bringing attention to what's already there by tracing it and illuminating it quite literally. That resonated with me a lot. I honestly almost cried like, like, in that moment, I don't know how else to describe it. But it was one of those instances where to kill that mind chatter is like an impossible feat. And I think that's why you know, works like this resonate with me because it's no small test to get me there. I just think we struggle in this day and age just to simply be present and to feel there. Simple as that. I felt there.
Joel Krieger 05:36
So hopefully that little detour gave us a few more perspectives on what it's like to experience the work. So let's get back to Annie. We join her talking about a piece they did in 2017 for the Van Abbe Museum, in Eindhoven, Netherlands. This piece is called submerged and was set right on the banks of the Dommel River. And this was a collaboration between Annie, sound designer Philip Ross, and ambient lighting Kari Kola. And this was the first time the sound was a big part of our work. Philip created the soundscape by submerging microphones right into the Dommel River. And the effect is quite enchanting. Visitors are completely enveloped by these magnified natural sounds. And here's Annie recounting that pivotal moment, where she realized that they were onto something.
Annie Mitchell 06:25
It was opening nights, and I was scrambling to finish as always, and to get out of the art for the onslaught of visitors. I was exhausted and dirty, and tired. And, you know, I start to walk out as this crowd, just like, barrels towards me is like 5000 people barreling towards me just, you know, being a crowd, they're approaching loudly like a crowd does, they're laughing and shouting. And you know, like, it was like a wave. As soon as they got within I an earshot of the piece. You know, it was Dutch whispers. And from all accounts, the other 745,000 visitors had had a similar reaction. The curators told us that they had had never seen anything like it, the peace had invoked this quiet reverence from what started out as a massive crowd of chaotic energy. And I, you know, I always felt that with my work, I felt it. And it was just incredible to see my experience validated with that many people. And that, you know, that scene, it sort of took my work in a new new direction, a new, more complete direction. I think it was the first time that I had to use sound design with the work. So I think you know that using all of the senses at once was just, it opened my eyes to what you could do the whole sensory experience, you know? So it just changed everything.
Joel Krieger 08:13
When you tell that story, just to have this vivid mental picture of you know, I've been at these festivals where there's just people and just noise. It makes me wonder, like, what must it take to shift the energy on its head so completely? Because they go from 10 to zero? Yeah, in a matter of a few seconds. Right?
Annie Mitchell 08:33
Yeah. Yeah. It was like a wave, you know, as soon as they saw what was going on. And, you know, it's like, they became curious, maybe, you know, because the tempo and the sounds were so relaxing and quiet and you contemplated it, you know, I think they were forced to be quiet to experience it. Very otherworldly. And it's, you know, it's very relaxing, you know, by design, or, you know, by accident, and then by design, I should say, you know, it was just like a phenomena that I that I started noticing and I you know, it's a energy that I'm very drawn to that you know, being slowed, I'm an anxious person by nature. So I'm always seeking experiences that helped me with my anxiety and help me disconnect from you know, my busy life and all the stresses that are in it. And you know, nature is a huge part of that for me hiking and running and, you know, being immersed in nature and disconnected from technology, but, but then when you add something like this on top of that experience, and you know, it starts to slow people down, and it's really it's really magical. very therapeutic very, you know, medicinal for me, hopefully for other people, too.
Joel Krieger 10:00
Yeah, let's dig into that a bit. So you know, your work aspires to create a meaningful connection between the person experiencing it and the natural landscape of the world around them. Why is it so important?
Annie Mitchell 10:16
Um, well, it's important because we're heathens who have consumed ourselves into an ecological pickle. You know, it's the human condition to take action on behalf of things that we feel a deep connection to. And with an ecosystem in crisis, it's, in my opinion, become increasingly urgent to nurture that relationship between people and their environments. So you know, it spurs action and in, in tackling the extreme challenges that we're facing with climate change and, and as a civilization, I think that I hope that my work provokes a deep empathy for our natural world by exposing, you know, healing energies and rhythms through the immersive light and sound, you know, combined with a natural setting and, and all that it offers.
Joel Krieger 11:19
Yeah, I was talking to someone the other day about what percentage of people have ever actually come into contact with a healthy, fully intact ecosystem. And it's not many. And so much of society is just existing in this man-made artifice, like everything, from when they wake up in the morning to when they go to sleep at night is completely removed from the natural world. So I love this idea that there are many, many pathways back to being in relation to your, your environment. Yeah, yeah. Do you feel like this, like you're experiencing your work, has kind of opened up that realization for, for some people that?
Annie Mitchell 12:05
I hope so, you know, I can only speak for myself, and, you know, what people have told me, but, you know, certainly for me, it's it, you know, hiking out to these places, you know, I'm looking, I'm seeking beauty, I'm seeking, you know, that sanctuary in nature, you know, to build my work. So certainly, for me, it's been, it's been healing and, and it's connected me more to, to the natural world and, and how beautiful it is, and how, you know, what a shame it is that there's just not not much of it left. And when it's an it's so hard for us to get to it and disconnect from everything, you know, but I can only speak for myself. Yeah, I hope that that, you know, by seeing or experiencing my work that, you know, it's opening people up to the beauty of the natural world, you know, that that, that there is that beauty out there. And it just takes a few minutes to disconnect from, from the stress of our, you know, overly connected lives and get out into it. It really, you don't even have to go very far. You know, sometimes my pieces are pretty close, close to it, like parking areas and state parks or hiking trails that you can get to pretty easily. I mean, just five minutes off of a trail is, you know, better than nothing. There's some pretty awesome places five minutes out of the parking lot. How do you choose those locations? It's really, it's pretty simple. Really. I just become drawn to places. Like Alaska, I just did a piece there. And right now, I'm obsessed with Norway. But I'm dying to go to Norway. That I become you know, I become fascinated with these places. And I'll sometimes just buy a ticket and go there with no plan but a backpack full of lights. Yeah, but to make, make my larger projects happen. I'll typically head to an area that I'm obsessed with, you know, like Norway will typically head to that area first and, and just look around on my own. And then you know, connect with locals and then then I'll come back with, you know, duffel bags, full of gear and a skeleton crew to make something happen. I just sort of just sort of go where my heart takes me where my interests take me And, and it's worked out so far, there's just, there's no shortage of beautiful places. That's for sure. Now, for the gorilla pieces, those work a little bit differently. The gorilla pieces are similarly chosen, you know, I am drawn to an area, or someone will introduce me to an area, but it's within a limited radius of home. Home is Los Angeles. And oh, you know, within four hours of Los Angeles is just like, anything you could possibly imagine, you know, snow capped mountains, beaches, deserts, pinnacles, you know, just like crazy stuff everywhere. So I'm in a really good location for that exercise.
Pavani Yalla 15:52
What's the difference between your guerilla installs? And the other ones? Typically,
Annie Mitchell 15:58
the guerrilla installs are usually just me and my photographer, and if someone else wants to, you know, sometimes I'll invite other people along, but usually, it's just myself and my photographer, and we, we go out spur of the moment, and, and just do pieces together as sort of an exercise. And, you know, for me, those pieces are, are medicinal, you know, that's why it's kind of like my fixed to do those guerrilla pieces. And they're spur of the moment there. There's no client. It's just wherever I want to go with whatever I want to do with my photographer.
Pavani Yalla 16:45
And so when you are out, doing one of these guerilla installs, what are you looking for? You know, when do you stop and say, this is where I want to do this?
Annie Mitchell 16:57
When I'm moved? Yeah, there, there are some other considerations that we take into account like, you know, I try to capture lunar events, if I can, like, we just captured the Jupiter and Saturn conjunction, a piece we did on the beach, in Malibu, oftentimes, we're definitely trying to hit the Milky Way. You know, the Milky Way is like, it's only it's only there for you know, certain seasons. And you kind of have to chase it. And so we'll hike around and, you know, there's the app you can have on your phone, I can show you where the Milky Way is. So we're looking for hillsides, you know that that would have the Milky Way sort of in the background. We're trying to avoid light pollution so going far enough out that we're not getting light pollution or you know, street lamps or anything like that. So, but mostly, it's like, you know, we're like we decided we want to do Trona Pinnacles, so we just drove to the Trona Pinnacles. And then we walk around, and, you know, look for the Milky Way and look for places that inspire me, and that we think would be beautiful. So it is very instinctual. Yeah. And then, you know, often hikers will come by, so people will come across them by accident, which I think is really really nice. I like that part of it, that it's unplanned and, and just by accident, you might hike out and see this weird thing happening in the middle of nowhere, where there's not even electricity.
Pavani Yalla 18:50
You know, that's got to be the best. I'm just imagining randomly encountering your work, right, like not going to seek it. And I'm just imagining that that experience would be different.
Annie Mitchell 19:03
Well, yeah, yeah, it would, it would knock you off your feet a little bit, I think. Yeah. What a treat, I think so. I would be I would think so in LA, though, you know, they've seen everything and they don't give a crap. Just walk past it. But sometimes, you know, the one I did with that Museum of Anchorage, or the Anchorage Museum, excuse me. We actually released the coordinates of that one after we picked the spot. So we sought the site in the same way that I always do. You know, we went up there and we hiked around and stuff, several different places before I picked one. And then, you know, once that happened, we released the coordinates to the public. So if they wanted to come out, they could. That's kind of what I've been offering. You know, the clients like maybe We'll do this, we'll do a piece at the museum that's very planned and people can come and then, and then do like an offshoot off grid piece that, you know, we hike out and that way I get my, I get my fix too. But yeah, they're really the gorilla pieces, are very, very personal to me, you know that they're what I enjoy doing the most for sure.
Joel Krieger 20:26
Because your work is, you know it's light and sound, but let's just talk about the light for a minute. You call them light tentacles. Yeah, yeah. So they illuminate the landscape, I would imagine that people are starting to pay attention or notice things that they wouldn't have otherwise noticed. I mean, do you find that? What do you see people doing? Are they paying closer attention?
Annie Mitchell 20:52
Hmm. Yeah. I, I've never really thought, have you ever thought about it from that angle? Like, are they paying attention? Are they paying more attention to their surroundings? You know, I'd like to, I'd like to think so. But again, you might have to ask someone other than me, who's experienced it. But for me, it's maybe not so much about noticing things I wouldn't normally notice. So much as the pause and the hypnosis. It does something to you that's less about seeing and, and more about feeling, if that makes any sense. But what I will say this, once you've felt that and you've been in that place, it's definitely easier to be in all, so so I guess in a way, it maybe it makes you more aware of your surroundings, but it's, but it's, I guess after you know, not during, it's like, it's like opening your eyes after you've had a nice long meditation. And the world is fresh and beautiful. It kind of feels like that. I think
Joel Krieger 22:14
That's a nice feeling. I need that feeling.
Pavani Yalla 22:23
So can you tell us more about the light tentacles? I love calling them that, by the way. Like, what are they made of? How do they work?
Annie Mitchell 22:31
Yeah. I love this part. Cool. I think I'm more of an engineer than an artist. Sometimes. I think I could probably fill a whole hour with this. Are you ready?
Joel Krieger 22:49
Give us the five minute version.
Annie Mitchell 22:52
I'll try it. Yeah, one of my favorite things is to have somebody over to the studio asking questions about my process because it's a doozy. Like, it's so much more than you think it's going to be. Right now I have something like 50 miles of point five millimeter fiber optics that I've bundled into these ponytails. And I've done that using this crazy hand crank, wooden loom that my pal and I made. I call it my fiber optic loom. So these, these ponytails that the loom makes, they have like 40 or 50 strands of these fiber optic hairs in them, and they range from 10 feet to 60 feet long. And these are what I call my tentacles, these ponytails have 40 or 50 fibers. And I currently have a library of about 200 of those. And they're, they're, you know, they're really delicate, as you can imagine, it's like making an enormous land sculpture out of something that resembles human hair. After I create the tentacles, I run them through a sleeving process to protect them from the environment. So So, so some of them are inside, kind of like netting a sleeve. And some of the you know the endpoints are exposed. So you can see how delicate that the tentacles actually are. So they're crimped there through that little sleeve. And the fibers like 40 or 50 of them are exposed on the other end of that. And then I use heat on that. So it melts the fibers together into like a disc and I sand that in To a gloss, so you have like, like this shiny, solid plug right at the end of these at the end of these tentacles. And, and that's what rests on the LED. And I have, you know, hundreds of those. And the LED system, you know, that's all custom too, I have custom lights that I have made. And I've, you know, made this mold, I make a black silicone encasements that I embed these LEDs into. And each one of those, each one of those bars has 30 right now, the ones that I'm using have 30 LEDs on them. And so they House about 15 or 20 tentacles, so each one of my silicone bars has, like 15 or 20 tentacles coming off of it. And then I have you know, dozens of those and cables that run in between them. And, and they can be you know, daisy chained together and spread out to really just conform to any environment I want to put them in. And, you know, I've hung them in trees, I wrapped them around rocks, you know, they're very, very flexible, but also weatherproof, waterproof. And, and you know, put them under seaweed, it just allows me maximum flexibility with the environment. And they're also really, really lightweight, everything, everything is really lightweight. Everything has been designed to fit in my backpack, you know, these light bars, they're the exact same, they're exactly the same size as my backpack, the fibers are in these, you know, lassos I lasso them up, and they're really, really light. So you know, I can have, I can have barely, I'm carrying barely any weight at all. And you know, I can have this huge land sculpture just explode out of my backpack. It's pretty wild. It's very designed, you know, it's, it's a process that's evolved a lot over the years, these plugging systems and, and I'm, you know, still redesigning them every time I every time I do it, I'm redesigning them over and over again, making them better.
Joel Krieger 27:18
So I knew that you custom made these but I had no idea the level of craft that goes into it. Like that's a lot. That's a lot of steps. That's
Annie Mitchell 27:27
a lot of work, a lot of work. It's a lot of work. You're not kidding.
Joel Krieger 27:32
Let's shift gears a bit. You know, I know you've told me that like, while you're not a scientist, your work is informed by neuroscience and biopsychology. So there's a foundation to what you're doing here. So I was wondering if you could tell us a little bit more about the science behind your art?
Annie Mitchell 27:50
Yeah, I'm using a few tricks to get visitors into a specific brainwave state. The tricks are light and sound, you know, pretty easy. And, nature is there to help clear and open the mind. It makes you sort of a, an, it, it's kind of cheating, right? And just makes it a little easier to get you where I want you. And then you know, the bio bio ecological theory simply states that our development as humans is influenced by our environment. So in my opinion, if those interactions are positive, you know, full of all and peaceful, then we're going to evolve in the right direction. That's my hope.
Joel Krieger 28:38
Yeah, that's, that's a noble hope. I hope so too. We talked a bit about the light component, but equally important, is the sound. And you know, you've used this term, you've described it as sound therapy. So this brainwave entrainment and isochronic tones. Can you tell us more about how that works?
Annie Mitchell 29:04
Yeah, I love this. I found that by accident, really?
Joel Krieger 29:09
That's a happy accident.
Annie Mitchell 29:10
Yeah. Yeah, so sound is definitely sound therapy. No doubt about it. So our brainwaves, you probably know this already. But our brain waves are divided into four main categories. You have a delta, when deep sleep occurs, you have theta, which is associated with somnolence and reduced consciousness. Alpha is when we're in a state of physical and mental relaxation. That's like when you're meditating. You're in alpha, hopefully. And beta emitted when and where you're anxious and intense. That's the one you really want to avoid. And so using a pulsing sound, like in my sounds apes, light, like in my work or an electromagnetic field, such as the one that surrounds the earth. This thing called brainwave entrainment or synchronization, it actually stimulates the brain into entering a suggested state. I basically, I'm basically eliciting a natural, a natural thing and that unnatural currency within the human brain, we have this frequency following response, you know, encourages the brainwaves to align with what I present. What's really, really interesting is that everything in our universe has a frequency. Even objects that appear to be stationary are actually in fact vibrating or oscillating and resonating at various different frequencies. Now the Earth's frequency is on average 7.83 hertz. Some people refer to that as the heartbeat of the earth. In the scientific community, they call it the Schumann resonance. I don't know if you ever heard that. But that was the scientists who discovered it. And documented it mathematically. But as it turns out, your average frequency, our average frequency when we're an alpha state, is 7.83 hertz. So when we're in alpha, which is the state that's most closely related to creativity, relaxation, and calmness, that's when we're in tune with the earth. It's, you know, when we're outside of that brainwave state that we actually have most of our health problems. So what I'm, what I'm doing really is just introducing a frequency that our brains just naturally start to follow. And it causes you to relax that causes you to enter that state, you just start to naturally follow it. You don't control it, you cannot control it. It just happens.
Joel Krieger 32:25
Wow, that is so fascinating. I can't help but think about how much time we spend away from that frequency. And no wonder we're so unhealthy. No wonder there's so much mental illness and sickness.
Annie Mitchell 32:37
Yeah, yeah, I mean, you can get there, there's, there's devices on Amazon or anywhere called the Schumann resonance devices that you can get, and you can put them in your office or put them in your bedroom. And it's basically just, you know, sending out this ultra low frequency of pulses, you can't even hear it. But it'll relax you, and help you sleep.
Joel Krieger 33:07
Yeah, I want to get one. I want to talk for a little bit about how people experience your work. And, you know, I'm assuming that, you know, over all these installs, you've got to see quite a few people encounter your art. Engage with it. I'm curious. If you've noticed any patterns, I mean, what are people doing? How do they behave? You know, how long do they stay with the work?
Annie Mitchell 33:39
I think maybe they come thinking that they're just going to barrel through it. And they'll come in a big group maybe and, and, and then they break up and there's like, a person over over there, and then a person over there, and they're all really, they just sort of stare into the almost like staring into the abyss, you know, they get quiet and, and they just watch. And then they go around and look at things from different angles. And, and hear things from different angles, because, you know, the sound is all broken up, you know, into several different channels in several different locations. So depending on where you're standing within the installation, you're going to get a different sound mix, also. So, you know, people aren't moving around, and they're just like, they're slow, they become very slow. And I see them spending a lot of time you know, more than I would have even thought that they would, you know, like, for me, you know, I'm good. I get to sit there for 30 minutes or an hour or something like that, staring at the lights and getting the therapy but, you know, you don't expect that from other people. But you'll see them and they'll, they'll stay on there for, you know, 15 or 20 minutes. Like they're just kind of stuck. hypnotized, and that's, that's the stuff I love seeing that.
Pavani Yalla 35:14
So when Joel was first telling me about your work, he was talking about how it's sometimes out in the middle of, you know, the nature, right, and it takes a while to get there. So often it's a hike. Do you feel like that hike? affects people's experience of your work? You know, how does it affect people?
Annie Mitchell 35:35
Yeah, definitely, it affects people. I think probably anyone who's gone hiking knows that, that it puts you in a different state of mind, right, you start to care less about your life that you left behind, and you know less about Instagram, and the pings on your phone. And you start to really see things and feel things and, you know, definitely that is is, is part of the experience is, is getting people it's almost like, you know, a warm up a warm a warm up to the experience, like getting them into to where they are going to be open to the magic. And, you know, I think that's a, it's an important part of it, you know, I really like doing pieces that are a little bit removed, at least you know, that people have to walk out and, and their eyes adjust, you know, you don't realize if you look at your phone for even a second, it takes five minutes for your eyes to readjust. Like, it takes five minutes for you to like not to see light as it is intended, you know, like, so if you were to look at your phone, and then try to look at the stars, they wouldn't be there. You know, so your eyes become more and more sensitive the further removed from light pollution you are. So that helps my work also. Now getting people I wish I could forbid people to have phones, I don't I don't want them to take photos. I don't want them to take videos. I want them to be in the moment. And you know, the nature of going into it. The hiking and that's all part of it. Just, you know, put your phone away.
Pavani Yalla 37:32
You should try like I don't know if people are approaching your work from one point but you should try putting like a big bin that says drop your phone in here.
Annie Mitchell 37:41
before they actually get into like they do on sleep no more if you've been to that and yeah, like give us your phones. No photos, no videos. Nothing. Give us your phones. Yeah, that's how it is. Yeah, well, when I get really big and famous, I'll insist.
Joel Krieger 37:59
Yeah, no, I think I think that hike the way I imagined it, it's like a priming. It's like a palate cleanser so that you're ready to receive the gift of what's there once you get there. Exactly. That's exactly right. You put it better than I did. A palate cleanser. Yeah. Yeah. It's like ginger before. In between sushi. Yeah. Is that why that's. So I've heard I could be wrong.
Pavani Yalla 38:32
So Annie, after doing so many of these right over the years, do you feel like you've learned anything about people in general?
Annie Mitchell 38:43
Yeah, they don't want to leave their devices. The real hesitant, you know, that. It takes a lot. It takes a lot for people to unwind and relax and connect to the world around them and the people around them, which is really unfortunate, I think. Yeah, I wish I had something a little more positive to say there. I think that maybe I do have something more positive to say. I think it's in there. It just takes some prompting, you know, I think that, that people want it and once they've felt it, they want more of it. But, you know, it's hard. It's hard to get people to disconnect, it's almost like you're addicted to the anxiety to you're addicted to the fast pace. You know, people think that they need it or they're not real without it or something. You know, I don't know. I kind of left that life behind. So I can't explain it. I would never have a phone on me if I didn't need to. But yeah, I think that you know, they're just really hesitant to, to let go of the trappings of our, our modern lives. And I wish it were different. And I hope that myself and other artists here are working and you know, environmental art or guides, you know, and people bringing people into nature, you know that. And, you know, even maybe the pandemic, too, it seems like people have a newfound appreciation for our environment and being out. I know, in LA, like, the trails are packed all the time. Now the beaches are packed all the time. Now, instead of going to these dark clubs, and drinking and doing these unhealthy things, people are starting to, to venture out into the wild and be more connected. And I really hope that that continues, you know, that they found something that they didn't know was there. And they continue that, beyond, you know, the pandemic. It was there all along. Yeah. And yeah, yeah, it's all there all along, just have to open yourself to it.
Pavani Yalla 41:10
I was imagining someone encountering your work in the middle of nowhere, let's say, and the fact that it probably feels very unexpected, right? And maybe it is the juxtaposition of the technology, or what looks pretty high tech, with something like a landscape that you wouldn't expect to see it there. That causes people to wake up a little bit right, and just be more aware. And then of course, there's what they're experiencing when they're enveloped by it, and slowing down. So, to your point, maybe you might not be intending necessarily that people are getting closer to nature, but they can't help it because they're now more aware, they're more awake, and they're just kind of in tune with what they should be in tune with.
Annie Mitchell 41:58
Yeah, well, there's that whole phenomenon, right? Like, when you experience things that are greater than you are, when you experience those moments of awe, it changes you, it makes you aware of your place in the universe. And there could be some of that for sure.
Joel Krieger 42:16
I like that. It's almost like a microcosm of the overview effect. Right. You know, the overview effect is the astronauts looking down on Earth. Is that what Yeah, so this is like, you're in, you're in? It's like that you ever see that? Eames power of 10? video? It's kind of like that. It's like your work is operating in the kind of close ups? Yeah, because you can get the overview from different points of view. I
Annie Mitchell 42:43
I would think so too. Like, yeah, I mean, that's what all is all about is like, you know, looking at a cloud and feeling like, Oh, my gosh, I'm so small, or looking at the stars. And, and, and, you know, feeling your place in the universe, like how fragile it is, you know, and how lucky you are, to be here experiencing that. And, you know, it's healthy, you're supposed to have one moment of joy every day. Are you guys getting you're awe? Yeah,
Pavani Yalla 43:14
I'm jealous of my kids. So they're young. And so my four year especially, like, he's awestruck by everything, right? Like, we're learning about space now. And we're like, looking at this, these beautiful images of the planets and like, the more he understands what's really out there, he's just awestruck, like, I wish I could feel that way. Every five minutes.
Annie Mitchell 43:29
Again, you must be so mentally healthy then. To have all this, oh, this, oh, yeah, it's really good for you. That's why you know, hiking and being outdoors and, you know, whatever you can do to be outside I think that's like, it's very balancing, you know, it makes you in tune with the environment and like, you know, you feel you're your own mortality and your own size in the universe. I think that's really important in keeping things in perspective in your life. And, you know, things are hard for sure pandemic and like, we've all been at home for a whole frickin year. And, you know, the economy sucks and all that, but the pieces out there, you know, it's, it's always out there, you just kind of have to open yourself to it and take the time out to go find it and feel it. And, you know, I hope that people people can do that, you know, set aside time and, and and find that peace instead of just being so anxious as I think we're just making things worse that you know, the more we're in our devices, the the more unhappy We are the more damaging we are to our environment and to each other. And you know, if we can, if we can stop that behavior, if we can connect with each other and the earth and feel that all I think that You know, we will evolve, we will evolve in a better way. And that's my hope.
Joel Krieger 45:08
That's good medicine. So we all need to start taking our daily dose of awe. Remember that? Annie, this has been wonderful. One last question for you, just if there's anything we haven't covered, you know, especially with regards to any intentional decisions you've made about how your works come to life, you know, it's kind of open forum, share with us anything you think we might have missed.
Annie Mitchell 45:37
Hmm. There is one thing that people typically find interesting. I think the reason that I found this work was when I told you I struggle with anxiety, but, you know, in 1997, I had a, I want to say, near death experience. But I died. I died for several minutes. And, and when I was gone, I found myself in a place that was so peaceful. It felt so good, that when they brought me back, I started crying. And I was so upset that they had brought me back. And this was long before I, you know, I ever had an inkling at that time, I was like a design consultant. You know. So, this was years before I had devoted my life to what I'm doing now. But I had that feeling, that feeling of peace. And, and I think that I've been trying to find that peace ever since. And that's, you know, in my explorations with this work, and in all of my work, that's what it's been about. It's been, it's been trying to find that place that they brought me back from. And maybe that sounds a little hokey or whatever, but it's absolutely true. There, there was a piece that they took away from me, and, and I want, I personally want to feel that here on this plane. And, you know, with this body, I want that piece. And I want other people to have that too. You know, I know how hard it is, I know what a challenge it is. To live and have relationships and struggle and maybe not have enough to eat and all these, you know, human needs that we have that sometimes aren't met. But there's a piece in there too. There's a piece in the universe that we can tune into. And I know that for a fact, I felt it and I feel it when I'm in my work, and I just want to give it to other people.
Joel Krieger 48:16
Alright, so it's been a minute since we spoke with Annie, what's resonated with you? What's been on your mind since we talked?
Pavani Yalla 48:24
I think the thing that surprised me most about our conversation was that I went into it with the assumption that I assumed she was doing one thing with her art. And through the conversation, I realized she was actually doing something very different. So initially, I'd seen some images of her work on her website. And I had assumed that she was trying to enhance these natural landscapes, right getting you to notice something that you maybe hadn't noticed before. And then when we started talking to her, I realized that she's actually doing something even more powerful. She's not just getting you to notice the earth. She's actually literally tuning you to the earth, which was super fascinating. And I kind of got obsessed with the Schumann resonance. After that, I think I had heard about it before, but I hadn't really looked into it. And I started looking into it after our conversation with her. And I actually have been listening to it on YouTube. Oh, yeah. Yeah, you know how I work. I work late hours. So I was just googling the Schumann resonance and learning more about it and happened to find some stuff on YouTube that people had put out and started listening to it. And I realized that it really has that calming effect. And for me, when I'm working late, it's helpful to wind down to listen to it. So I've listened to it at least three to five times a week. For just like five to 10 minutes between working and going to bed, it's helped me calm down and, and really just be in the right mind state. I think she said it herself. It's not about the scene but it's about the feeling, I think is what she said. So that was unexpected and kind of amazing. You.
Joel Krieger 50:23
Yeah, yeah, no, I got excited about the same thing, in a way I've been. I've been thinking a lot about frequencies. And you know that that Schumann resonance tuner, it's so bizarre that we need, you know, there's a man made device to get you realigned to Earth's resonant frequency. And it, it really makes me wonder, before the modern world was 7.83 hertz, like our default frequency that we existed in, you know, I mean, we spend 99% of our life in a manmade environment, you're in your house, in the city, you're on a computer. So like, how much of our dire global situation is because we spend so much time totally disconnected from this natural frequency? I mean, could this have anything to do with why we're totally out of alignment with each other? We're all stuck in these lower brainwave frequencies that produce illness and pain, and everyone's operating on a radically different frequency. So what I love most about our work is that it gets people on the same frequency in order to experience something together. Yeah. And there, you know, there have been studies that show that crowds at a live concert or live theater can actually synchronize their heartbeats and their breathing. You know, that, I guess this idea of aligning to the right frequency. You know, it's not just brainwave entrainment, it's almost something that comes natural to people. And, you know, the way that we, the way that we experience something has so much to do with our state of mind going into it. So it's just really interesting to think about how we could you know, how you could get people on the same frequency before they have an experience and how profound of an effect that could have on the overall impact of something, you know, to ourselves. Yeah. I like that.
Pavani Yalla 52:27
Yeah, it was really cool. I had no idea. Again, I was just fascinated by the fact that the Earth had a heartbeat it was it almost like makes you want to cry when you think about that. Right?
Joel Krieger 52:38
Yeah, it's beautiful.
Pavani Yalla 52:41
I’m also just thinking about the overall experience arc that she's designed. And, you know, of course, once you get to her artwork, that's probably the peak experience, but leading up to it for the pieces that are in remote locations, right, she mentioned that it is a hike to get out to see. And I imagine that that hike is the perfect preamble to experience from our work because your brain is getting chemically ready, right? The physical exercise out in nature is releasing endorphins, de stressing you getting you just where you need to be. And then once you actually encounter her work, you start to see the visuals. It's like you've never you've never seen something like that before, right? It's really unique, those light tentacles and the way she's formed them on the landscape. So your brain is really curious and probably wondering, and maybe even feeling Ah, so you go from kind of relaxed and ready to what is that? Right. And then layering on the audio. Everything we just talked about, with tuning into that frequency, I think that's the peak experience where then you feel present, and you feel happy, ecstatic. All those things that some of the folks we spoke to describe. So that experience arc I think is beautiful, as well. And I really wish we could experience it ourselves. I wish we had actually been able to go to one of her installs, but maybe one day we can. I think her work is really genuine. And what I mean by that word is the fact that she's making experiences for people that she has experienced herself or she you know, she described that near that death experience that she had towards the end of our conversation. And she described her guerilla installs where she says it's her fix. And so it's for her it's about feeling something that she has felt and that she wants to keep feeling. And then she wants to share that with the world. And I think there's something to learn. As a design community, I think there's something for us to learn from that. Because typically, those of us who call ourselves designers professionally, don't, I don't think we've always experienced the thing that we are designing, right? Whether that's a digital application or physical experience, we're usually making a bunch of assumptions or hypotheses about what that end thing should be and how to get there. And we haven't actually experienced that outcome ourselves. Whereas Annie has experienced the thing, the very thing that she wants other people to experience what she's experienced, and she keeps experiencing it. And I think that the outcome can only be better because of that.
Joel Krieger 55:46
Yeah. It's so true. I had not thought that it had not occurred to me before. But you're absolutely right. You know, it always comes back to time, there's not enough time to really kind of do what you're suggesting, it's almost like you do have to dedicate an extraordinary amount of time to really thoroughly investigating something. And it's just something that's not too common to be able to do and the normal course of work and design. But yeah, to know, to know something so deeply, that it helps you illuminate the path for others to get there. That's a really important point. She spoke a lot about her work having this medicinal effect on her and not just experiencing it, but doing the work itself. She described it as a sort of therapy. And it got me thinking about how it's really common for a lot of environmental activists to experience burnout. And I wonder how much of that is because they're working in this oppositional mode, you know, they are resisting something they're protesting, and fighting against something is totally exhausting. And something about Annie's work, although she's not an environmental activist, but it just illuminates. I think, maybe an alternate pathway for activism, where it's not about resisting something or having solutions, but opening people up to connect with something that's much bigger. And so I guess the insight for me here is that your work designing for change shouldn't burn you out, it should rejuvenate you. And maybe this is something that we can use as a gut check for ourselves. So if you're feeling drained by your work, then maybe that's a signal that you're doing it wrong. Maybe there's a better way that's more about healing than it is about struggling and fighting.
Pavani Yalla 57:41
Yeah, love that. Awesome. Okay, that's it for this episode of Outside In… You can get the show notes at OutsideInPodcast.org. And learn more about Annie and her work at AnnieM.me. Special thanks to our friends, Jeff Grantz and Eames Demitrios for making time to speak with us about Annie’s work. If you like what you're hearing, please support us by subscribing rating or reviewing wherever you listen to your podcast. We'll see you next time.
