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Design For Change
Joel Krieger 00:08
All right, I'm here with my co host, Pavani. This is Joel here. So we felt the need to provide some context for what this podcast is all about. And most importantly, why we're doing it. In the brief conversation that follows, we will reflect a bit on the first three episodes, compare notes on why we felt compelled to take this on, and discuss our future aspirations for the project. Our intention is that, you know, you can invest a short 10 minutes here and see if this is something that you find interesting or valuable. What, first of all, it's pretty obvious. We're both designers, you and I, it's how we make our living. So naturally, I think we can nerd out on this stuff. But also, I think it's pretty clear that we're living in a time of great transition, you know, we got crises upon crises stacking up and the world is really changing rapidly. And I think pretty much everything about how we exist, our way of relating to the earth, our way of relating to each other needs to change. And many of us, both inside and outside of the design community, I think are feeling a calling to use our skills to help advances change, it's almost like there's a need for a new kind of designer emerging. One ambition that we've talked about is for this podcast to serve as almost like an open source Field Guide for changemakers. So you know, it'll have strategies and insights from which anyone can build their own experiences that work towards positive change. For me, this whole series is really kind of going deep on a single question, which is, how do we create the right conditions for transformative change to emerge?
Pavani Yalla 01:53
Yeah, I mean, I feel like we've called ourselves experienced designers for years, right. And we've designed a lot of different types of experiences. And I feel like through that time, I've come to realize that within the design community, we have a really narrow definition of what design is. And this became even more clear, when we started going from digital experiences into creating immersive environments, like I remember both of us, making a lot of mistakes and learning a lot of things. And now, in some ways, this is just kind of an extension of that journey, because we're realizing that we all tend to use some of the same muscles, and the same techniques, regardless of what it is we're designing. And so to me, a part of this is just an investigation or like, trying to seek design in places we wouldn't typically look for it, and seeing how we can learn from that.
Joel Krieger 02:51
In a way, you know, just kind of going back to the name outside in, why did we decide to call it outside in? I think, because we got tired of sifting through name options. I think we eventually got there, because this is very much about discovering design in unexpected places. So we're going way out there on the margins and talking to really interesting people, most of them don't even call themselves designers. And we're kind of pulling that wisdom and those insights back into the design community. The second reason is a little more ambitious, I guess, you know, life is just a series of experiences. And some of these experiences are really important because they change you. And what is it about these things that happen on the outside that change you on the inside? I don't know. It's just kind of being curious about how change happens in people, and how you can intentionally design for it.
Pavani Yalla 03:46
I still remember that moment. I remember where it was when we had a conversation about, okay, we're gonna start this podcast, we realized that life is short. And if you're going to make stuff, you better make stuff that matters. And we realized we wanted to talk to people who were making stuff that mattered. And that's where we realized, you know, these, the litmus test for our interviews will be people who've made things that have somehow changed or transformed people. And so I think it was kind of a journey in terms of how we really honed in on what our focus for this podcast will be. But ultimately, it's those two things. It's looking for inspiration on the outside. And that's where “Outside In” comes in. But it's also creating experiences that turn you inside out or outside in. Right. So yeah, I think both of those things are true. And that's why that title is actually really appropriate as well.
Joel Krieger 04:47
When you look out at the world, a lot of people wish it could be other than it really is. And there's a lot of people working really hard to change things. And I don't know that we all have the right tools. Do it. Like, are we going about it the right way? Clearly some of this isn't working. And so can we be a little more curious about... what are the tools and techniques and strategies that can be implemented and can be scaled to affect change in people?
Pavani Yalla 05:18
Yeah and think outside of our siloed professions, right? Because I think, again, we have a very narrow definition of what it means to be a designer right now. Especially within like the UX community, or the graphic design community means a very specific thing in terms of the things you're making, and you're applying them to problems that maybe don't always matter. And then on the flip side of things, there are other fields, where people are actually designing things, and they don't call themselves designers. And they're going about in a different way, and are having more or less impact. And we're not actually all collaborating or talking even to design together or put language around what it means to design for some of the bigger problems that we have.
Joel Krieger 06:08
You know, there are simply universal truths out there about the types of experiences that can change people, and a lot of people doing this sort of work. They may not even be aware of it. It may be just intuition. It may be just something they've noticed. But it's really interesting to start to, to catalogue these insights and to think about, is there scaffolding here? Is there some sort of design system that we can use to make sense of this practice of designing for change?
Pavani Yalla 06:39
Yeah, I think that's important that people don't always know what they're doing either. Sometimes it's instinctual. And then sometimes it's intentional. But trying to deconstruct what they're actually doing, and then giving it some structure and form and articulating it will help all of us, right?
Joel Krieger 06:58
Yeah. You know, one point I wanted to make is, I kind of feel like this is not just a pie. I mean, yes, it's a podcast for designers. But it's really a podcast for anyone, anyone who, who wants to change something about their experience of the world. We've all designed experiences, whether you call it that or not. I mean, this is something that anyone's capable of doing. And so I really liked the idea that we're trying to make something that yes, it has appeal and value to the design community, but is also relevant, really to anyone. Well, let's talk a little bit about the process of putting these together, because we worked a good bit on the format iterating, until we got something that we felt was interesting. So the first thing we're going to do is we search to find really interesting experiences that provoke some sort of change in people. And this means that we're kind of, we're looking for design in very unexpected places, then we're going to try to experience these things firsthand. That's not always going to be the case, if we can't do it ourselves, we're going to try our best to talk to people who have. And then after all that's done, we're going to talk with the creators of the experience themselves, and together, break down their design decisions, and uncover some insights along the way. After that conversation. We're gonna let that marinate for a bit. And poverty. And I come back together after we've kind of thought about what was discussed? And kind of what would you say poverty, like, share some of the lingering insights or the things that stayed with us?
Pavani Yalla 08:35
Yeah, I mean, I think what we're trying to do is just further deconstruct what was said, I would say that we're kind of analyzing it at that point. And seeing, like you said, what, what have we learned from it? Because ultimately, the goal is to learn from all the conversations we're having, and expand our own toolkit of techniques, and be able to apply those, whether that's, you know, professionally or personally, and hopefully, we can keep making stuff that actually matters.
Joel Krieger 09:07
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, really, even, you know, we've done three episodes. So far, I feel like I've already gleaned so many new insights and strategies that I can see applying in our work, just in our own personal work. But also, I get really excited about this as a contribution to the field at large, you know, and so the idea of us kind of open sourcing this, trying to catalog it and make sense of it, give it some sort of structure, and then give it away. I mean, this is for everyone. This is hopefully valuable, useful information that others can use to build experiences that work towards positive change.
Pavani Yalla 09:49
I have really enjoyed having these conversations with people who are so different, and I think I've surprised myself in terms of How much I have to learn about design from non-designers.